[osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

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[osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

Boh Yap
hi Raja, Red, Haris

I started writing a crititique on the Bill, and I came to realise I was just finding flaws and overlooked a completely BIGGER Flaw in the bill... I was missing the forest for the trees!

This is what I came up with after several iterations.... It is not complete and I don't have time to complete it (work and meetings)! Hence I doubt I can meet the deadline, even if its midnight tonite. But pls bear with me, I think the logic and argument is sound... see what you can do about it...

Basically, there is no real objective/purpose for the bill, other than a bureaucratic one! Hence I argue for an expanded B National ICT Bill.... 

I need to add scenarios on how this is to happen,
How FOSS plays and very important role in it, and also OSDC et al....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overview & oversight: What is missing from its objectives

(mistake, error, omission, lapse, slip, blunder; informal slip-up, boo-boo, goof, flub - from Thesaurus)


Do we need an act of Parliament just to govern IT Professionals, or should a National ICT Act be much broader in scope?


...from the introduction of the BCPM:


"An Act to provide for the establishment of the Board of Computing Professionals Malaysia and for the registration of computing practitioners, computing professionals, sole proprietorships, partnerships and bodies corporate providing Computing Services and for purposes connected therewith."


For an ICT Bill to be of sufficient weight to be passed by Parliament, it must have objectives, or fixes problems that impact national development, economy and progress. We are moving towards a very globally competitive world, one that is driven by knowledge and technology. Our government has foreseen this and has created the the ETP (Economic Transformation Program). 


Secondly, education plays a very important role in developing the Human Resource that is needed by any such ICT program of a national scale. In fact, in a recent policy announcement made by the British Education Minister, felt that its education system would not be able to meet the challenge of creating manpower of sufficient skills that would maintain Britain's global competitiveness in ICT and embarked on a program to overhaul education to upgrade development of ICT skills.

  

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/11/michael-gove-boring-it-lessons


NOTE that the new policy aims to REMOVE CENTRALIZED CONTROL and allow schools to implement their own deployment based on a common strategy!


Hence there is VERY IMPORTANT correlation between national economic transformation, global competitiveness, education and ICT. Any 'National CT Act' that does not integrate at least these 2 elements (ETP ad Education) becomes quit irrelevant!


Instead, what is needed  is a NATIONAL ICT ACT, that defines roadmaps and objectives that meet national goals! It SHOULD NOT JUST BE confined to the narrow scope of 'registering a bunch of professionals'!!!


Such an Act SHOULD INVOLVE EDUCATION AND THE ETP (Economic Transformation Program), It  otherwise it  becomes quite irrelevant! 


To have an Act cover such a wide scope, requires much planning! Note that the British government took years and involved other participants from education, industry etc... 


ICT Program and ETP and NKEA (National Key Economic Areas)


There are 12 NKEAs related to the ETP. All the NKEAS would require, benefit from or consume ICT products and services.

 

These are:


1. Healthcare

Clinical Trials

In Vitro Testing


2. Wholesale and Retail

    under the TUKAR program.


3. Agriculture 

    (specifically in BioTech)


4. Educ

(Develop and implement programs to develop skill-sets that can 

        contribute to other areas of ETP)


5. Communications and Content infrastructure


6. Electronics and Electrical technology

In areas related to Solar Energy and green technology, in 

the form of control and monitoring systems. 


In areas of automation and robotics.


Taking the conventional approach of preparing HR to meet the demands would be sound, BUT INSUFFICIENT. We need to nurture creative thinking and innovation in ICT, to be able to create and invent new technology, not just be a consumer of technology!


Implementing a National ICT Program that carefully integrate Education, ETP NKEAs would bring far more benefits than an Act just to manage a bunch of ICT professionals; and be worthy of discussion in Parliament!


ICT Program and Education


New policies and strategies have to be implemented to guide education towards developing real skill sets and innovation in ICT, not merely to pass tests and obtain certificates (which seem to be the objectives of the current system). Educators, especially those in the front lines, play important roles here, and there is a need to raise not only their level of computer literacy BUT also computer proficiency. 

If we are serious, perhaps ICT should be made a mandatory subject for K1-12, in the exams like UPSR...


Changes in policy and focus should be directed at creativity, innovation and R&D to meet and exceed the current demands of the NKEAs... in areas commonly regarded as 'cutting-edge' ie: Cloud computing, distributed & concurrent processing, next generation networking and telecommunications, mobile & embedded computing. 


All of these have applications in almost all of the above NKEAs! Rather than have current disjoint between the graduates's skill sets and what the industry needs, why not integrate NKEAs objectives into core curriculum, or at least explore technologies that are needed to meet these. 



The following are example scenarios of how these can happen.


#

# ...more

#




--
#-------
regds,

Boh Heong, Yap

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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

Raja Iskandar Shah
Boh, you need to sit down with Mdm Tan of OSCC. Those that you mentioned were the points that she wanted to put forth in her comments, how OSS impacts the bigger picture: ETP, Education, Community. Hopefully, the comments are forwarded to MOSTI, and the 2nd round of dialogues could include the OSCC.

Also I wasnt that happy with the statistics that MOSTI used to justify 'Malaysia is the ICT backwaters of the world'. I have a feeling that it was a vendor certification study. How does one reconcile with the low ranking in that report, and the World Bank report that says we are top tier leaders in e-govt (tho our infrastructure pulled us back a few rungs).







On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Boh Yap <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi Raja, Red, Haris

I started writing a crititique on the Bill, and I came to realise I was just finding flaws and overlooked a completely BIGGER Flaw in the bill... I was missing the forest for the trees!

This is what I came up with after several iterations.... It is not complete and I don't have time to complete it (work and meetings)! Hence I doubt I can meet the deadline, even if its midnight tonite. But pls bear with me, I think the logic and argument is sound... see what you can do about it...

Basically, there is no real objective/purpose for the bill, other than a bureaucratic one! Hence I argue for an expanded B National ICT Bill.... 

I need to add scenarios on how this is to happen,
How FOSS plays and very important role in it, and also OSDC et al....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overview & oversight: What is missing from its objectives

(mistake, error, omission, lapse, slip, blunder; informal slip-up, boo-boo, goof, flub - from Thesaurus)


Do we need an act of Parliament just to govern IT Professionals, or should a National ICT Act be much broader in scope?


...from the introduction of the BCPM:


"An Act to provide for the establishment of the Board of Computing Professionals Malaysia and for the registration of computing practitioners, computing professionals, sole proprietorships, partnerships and bodies corporate providing Computing Services and for purposes connected therewith."


For an ICT Bill to be of sufficient weight to be passed by Parliament, it must have objectives, or fixes problems that impact national development, economy and progress. We are moving towards a very globally competitive world, one that is driven by knowledge and technology. Our government has foreseen this and has created the the ETP (Economic Transformation Program). 


Secondly, education plays a very important role in developing the Human Resource that is needed by any such ICT program of a national scale. In fact, in a recent policy announcement made by the British Education Minister, felt that its education system would not be able to meet the challenge of creating manpower of sufficient skills that would maintain Britain's global competitiveness in ICT and embarked on a program to overhaul education to upgrade development of ICT skills.

  

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/11/michael-gove-boring-it-lessons


NOTE that the new policy aims to REMOVE CENTRALIZED CONTROL and allow schools to implement their own deployment based on a common strategy!


Hence there is VERY IMPORTANT correlation between national economic transformation, global competitiveness, education and ICT. Any 'National CT Act' that does not integrate at least these 2 elements (ETP ad Education) becomes quit irrelevant!


Instead, what is needed  is a NATIONAL ICT ACT, that defines roadmaps and objectives that meet national goals! It SHOULD NOT JUST BE confined to the narrow scope of 'registering a bunch of professionals'!!!


Such an Act SHOULD INVOLVE EDUCATION AND THE ETP (Economic Transformation Program), It  otherwise it  becomes quite irrelevant! 


To have an Act cover such a wide scope, requires much planning! Note that the British government took years and involved other participants from education, industry etc... 


ICT Program and ETP and NKEA (National Key Economic Areas)


There are 12 NKEAs related to the ETP. All the NKEAS would require, benefit from or consume ICT products and services.

 

These are:


1. Healthcare

Clinical Trials

In Vitro Testing


2. Wholesale and Retail

    under the TUKAR program.


3. Agriculture 

    (specifically in BioTech)


4. Educ

(Develop and implement programs to develop skill-sets that can 

        contribute to other areas of ETP)


5. Communications and Content infrastructure


6. Electronics and Electrical technology

In areas related to Solar Energy and green technology, in 

the form of control and monitoring systems. 


In areas of automation and robotics.


Taking the conventional approach of preparing HR to meet the demands would be sound, BUT INSUFFICIENT. We need to nurture creative thinking and innovation in ICT, to be able to create and invent new technology, not just be a consumer of technology!


Implementing a National ICT Program that carefully integrate Education, ETP NKEAs would bring far more benefits than an Act just to manage a bunch of ICT professionals; and be worthy of discussion in Parliament!


ICT Program and Education


New policies and strategies have to be implemented to guide education towards developing real skill sets and innovation in ICT, not merely to pass tests and obtain certificates (which seem to be the objectives of the current system). Educators, especially those in the front lines, play important roles here, and there is a need to raise not only their level of computer literacy BUT also computer proficiency. 

If we are serious, perhaps ICT should be made a mandatory subject for K1-12, in the exams like UPSR...


Changes in policy and focus should be directed at creativity, innovation and R&D to meet and exceed the current demands of the NKEAs... in areas commonly regarded as 'cutting-edge' ie: Cloud computing, distributed & concurrent processing, next generation networking and telecommunications, mobile & embedded computing. 


All of these have applications in almost all of the above NKEAs! Rather than have current disjoint between the graduates's skill sets and what the industry needs, why not integrate NKEAs objectives into core curriculum, or at least explore technologies that are needed to meet these. 



The following are example scenarios of how these can happen.


#

# ...more

#




--
#-------
regds,

Boh Heong, Yap

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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

red1
In reply to this post by Boh Yap
I commend all your effort of the OSDC.my team in addressing such a crisis. But what can i say that is not said oft times? Govt cannot be a good innovator, just a good regulator which is simply via carrot/stick or incentive/tax system.

Tax those who do not use ICT, and give rebates to those who do, and do not meddle in it like HRDC tried to do and failed horribly.

Education system, according to one time Dr M / govt MSC advisor, Dr Alvin Toffler, is a very slow beast due to government over-regulation. Knowledge moves much faster (or relatively move normal but since the cart is slower, you figure out the apparent speed limit).

What more ICT, where i can't even cope even with full time hacker schedule where i do not need to get dress for the office, caught in jams, meetings, phone calls and focus on every new tech that comes along. Let me give u my past iterinary this past 12 months which i delivered to my customer (that averages one brand new tech to learn per month):
1. Windows Installer based on NSIS
2. Costing Engine functional review
3. Manufacturing functional review
4. Fitnesse on ERP testing framework
5. Fixed Asset upgrade integration to ERP and functional review
6. Assets Maintenance functional review
7. Java on ERP POS upgrade and UISpec4J testing
8. Decoupled OpenbravoPOS integration via ActiveMQ
9. Jenkins CI Build service
10. GWT UI upgrade for ERP
And countless tools, research and mistakes that add to the steep learning curve. I am enjoying this alot cos this was what i was good at in 1982! But the CTO life took away all that, and now i turned around myself and will never ever again believe anyone who is not a peer hacker in my project chatroom.

You all are just lucky i am Malaysian and suscribed to this amusing list. <-- aimed at wariola only. :)

Greetings from Bogota. <-- too far for u to stranggle me wariola :)

On 1/13/12 2:58 PM, Boh Yap wrote:
hi Raja, Red, Haris

I started writing a crititique on the Bill, and I came to realise I was just finding flaws and overlooked a completely BIGGER Flaw in the bill... I was missing the forest for the trees!

This is what I came up with after several iterations.... It is not complete and I don't have time to complete it (work and meetings)! Hence I doubt I can meet the deadline, even if its midnight tonite. But pls bear with me, I think the logic and argument is sound... see what you can do about it...

Basically, there is no real objective/purpose for the bill, other than a bureaucratic one! Hence I argue for an expanded B National ICT Bill.... 

I need to add scenarios on how this is to happen,
How FOSS plays and very important role in it, and also OSDC et al....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overview & oversight: What is missing from its objectives

(mistake, error, omission, lapse, slip, blunder; informal slip-up, boo-boo, goof, flub - from Thesaurus)


Do we need an act of Parliament just to govern IT Professionals, or should a National ICT Act be much broader in scope?


...from the introduction of the BCPM:


"An Act to provide for the establishment of the Board of Computing Professionals Malaysia and for the registration of computing practitioners, computing professionals, sole proprietorships, partnerships and bodies corporate providing Computing Services and for purposes connected therewith."

 

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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

red1
In reply to this post by Raja Iskandar Shah
Baim,
The World Bank report is a figurative ranking (or relative one). It is
not absolute. If your speed limit is 110 kph you cannot compare with
Germany's autobahn no speed limit and say we are infinitely slow!

Remember when i sat with you in OSCC we looked at online UN reports that
say the problem with FOSS studies is that there are no good FOSS
studies! ("not enough generalization done" are the exact words i picked
up with my sharp eyes, thanks to the coffee given in the mornings and
Eric Yeoh daily tales from the crypt). :)


On 1/13/12 3:18 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah wrote:
> Also I wasnt that happy with the statistics that MOSTI used to justify
> 'Malaysia is the ICT backwaters of the world'. I have a feeling that
> it was a vendor certification study. How does one reconcile with the
> low ranking in that report, and the World Bank report that says we are
> top tier leaders in e-govt (tho our infrastructure pulled us back a
> few rungs).

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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

Raja Iskandar Shah
In reply to this post by red1
oh shit !

mosti is not using the most appropriate report for regulating computing professional

the report is essentially an infrastructure report :

in that report, the index is measured by:
40% ict access
40% ict use
20% ict skill


ict skill is measured by:
1. adult literacy rate
2. secondary gross enrolment ratio
3. tertiary gross enrolment ratio

and malaysia stands at rank number 91 in ict skills

i am not even sure enrolment means enrolment in an ict course of study - i think the index only takes general enrolment !

the reason why we are so low in the rankings is because according to UNESCO only 67% of eligible malaysians goes to secondary school !





On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:32 PM, red1 <[hidden email]> wrote:
I commend all your effort of the OSDC.my team in addressing such a crisis. But what can i say that is not said oft times? Govt cannot be a good innovator, just a good regulator which is simply via carrot/stick or incentive/tax system.

Tax those who do not use ICT, and give rebates to those who do, and do not meddle in it like HRDC tried to do and failed horribly.

Education system, according to one time Dr M / govt MSC advisor, Dr Alvin Toffler, is a very slow beast due to government over-regulation. Knowledge moves much faster (or relatively move normal but since the cart is slower, you figure out the apparent speed limit).

What more ICT, where i can't even cope even with full time hacker schedule where i do not need to get dress for the office, caught in jams, meetings, phone calls and focus on every new tech that comes along. Let me give u my past iterinary this past 12 months which i delivered to my customer (that averages one brand new tech to learn per month):
1. Windows Installer based on NSIS
2. Costing Engine functional review
3. Manufacturing functional review
4. Fitnesse on ERP testing framework
5. Fixed Asset upgrade integration to ERP and functional review
6. Assets Maintenance functional review
7. Java on ERP POS upgrade and UISpec4J testing
8. Decoupled OpenbravoPOS integration via ActiveMQ
9. Jenkins CI Build service
10. GWT UI upgrade for ERP
And countless tools, research and mistakes that add to the steep learning curve. I am enjoying this alot cos this was what i was good at in 1982! But the CTO life took away all that, and now i turned around myself and will never ever again believe anyone who is not a peer hacker in my project chatroom.

You all are just lucky i am Malaysian and suscribed to this amusing list. <-- aimed at wariola only. :)

Greetings from Bogota. <-- too far for u to stranggle me wariola :)


On 1/13/12 2:58 PM, Boh Yap wrote:
hi Raja, Red, Haris

I started writing a crititique on the Bill, and I came to realise I was just finding flaws and overlooked a completely BIGGER Flaw in the bill... I was missing the forest for the trees!

This is what I came up with after several iterations.... It is not complete and I don't have time to complete it (work and meetings)! Hence I doubt I can meet the deadline, even if its midnight tonite. But pls bear with me, I think the logic and argument is sound... see what you can do about it...

Basically, there is no real objective/purpose for the bill, other than a bureaucratic one! Hence I argue for an expanded B National ICT Bill.... 

I need to add scenarios on how this is to happen,
How FOSS plays and very important role in it, and also OSDC et al....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overview & oversight: What is missing from its objectives

(mistake, error, omission, lapse, slip, blunder; informal slip-up, boo-boo, goof, flub - from Thesaurus)


Do we need an act of Parliament just to govern IT Professionals, or should a National ICT Act be much broader in scope?


...from the introduction of the BCPM:


"An Act to provide for the establishment of the Board of Computing Professionals Malaysia and for the registration of computing practitioners, computing professionals, sole proprietorships, partnerships and bodies corporate providing Computing Services and for purposes connected therewith."

 

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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

red1
Baim, you may have to use Boh's specs as i think this is the trees that
we must not see.

What you quoted the govt on is nothing wrong IMHO. You got to measure
before you can move. Govt has to measure what it got. And that is what
it got.

But the BCPM in question is using the wrong medicine for the right pain.
Govt just cannot have the centrist approach anymore. It must open up to
more NGOs to decide their ground collectively.

OSDC.my for example are made up of professionals who knows best what it
takes. At least trust that we are not part of the statistics who did not
made it past SPM.

Relying too much on our dear Madam is also not fair as her hands are tied.

On 1/13/12 4:07 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah wrote:

> oh shit !
>
> mosti is not using the most appropriate report for regulating
> computing professional
>
> the report is essentially an infrastructure report :
> http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/publications/idi/2011/index.html
>
> in that report, the index is measured by:
> 40% ict access
> 40% ict use
> 20% ict skill
>

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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

Raja Iskandar Shah
yup, i could certainly use boh's specs 

however the ranking that mosti is using to justify the computing professional bill is not right. that statistics do not even measure stuff like ict companies / ict workers / ict graduates. it does not even consider if ict is part of the curriculum. so, this ranking is not the right measure.



On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 4:43 PM, red1 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Baim, you may have to use Boh's specs as i think this is the trees that we must not see.

What you quoted the govt on is nothing wrong IMHO. You got to measure before you can move. Govt has to measure what it got. And that is what it got.

But the BCPM in question is using the wrong medicine for the right pain. Govt just cannot have the centrist approach anymore. It must open up to more NGOs to decide their ground collectively.

OSDC.my for example are made up of professionals who knows best what it takes. At least trust that we are not part of the statistics who did not made it past SPM.

Relying too much on our dear Madam is also not fair as her hands are tied.


On 1/13/12 4:07 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah wrote:
oh shit !

mosti is not using the most appropriate report for regulating computing professional

the report is essentially an infrastructure report :
http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/publications/idi/2011/index.html

in that report, the index is measured by:
40% ict access
40% ict use
20% ict skill


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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

Boh Yap
... Just home after mtg. Agree, the measurement is wrong, and measuring the past just to fix some numbers (like rankings or just head count) WITHOUT looking to the future (for ETP); is very short-sighted and typical bureaucratic mindset!

But thats not the point, the entire objective is wrong. The forest is missing, let's plant trees so that in a few years time, we have a healthy forest! How many trees, what trees used to be there is in material, let's plant the trees we need/want!

Don't fix the past, fix the future!

Will add more ideas later tonite...

Also would like to add, we shld address the BCPM as one voice, OSDC, rather then as a bunch of individuals.

Regds. Boh
Sent from my iPhone.

On 13/01/2012, at 5:11 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah <[hidden email]> wrote:

yup, i could certainly use boh's specs 

however the ranking that mosti is using to justify the computing professional bill is not right. that statistics do not even measure stuff like ict companies / ict workers / ict graduates. it does not even consider if ict is part of the curriculum. so, this ranking is not the right measure.



On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 4:43 PM, red1 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Baim, you may have to use Boh's specs as i think this is the trees that we must not see.

What you quoted the govt on is nothing wrong IMHO. You got to measure before you can move. Govt has to measure what it got. And that is what it got.

But the BCPM in question is using the wrong medicine for the right pain. Govt just cannot have the centrist approach anymore. It must open up to more NGOs to decide their ground collectively.

OSDC.my for example are made up of professionals who knows best what it takes. At least trust that we are not part of the statistics who did not made it past SPM.

Relying too much on our dear Madam is also not fair as her hands are tied.


On 1/13/12 4:07 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah wrote:
oh shit !

mosti is not using the most appropriate report for regulating computing professional

the report is essentially an infrastructure report :
http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/publications/idi/2011/index.html

in that report, the index is measured by:
40% ict access
40% ict use
20% ict skill


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Re: [osdcmy] BCPM Computing Proff. Bill

red1
You mean to say that the whole government departmental staff in MOSTI, supported by a huge budget of research programs, have countless break meetings with ample rank and file, summit conferences with think tanks,  paid seminars, sponsored PhDs, big 'Urusan Seri Paduka Baginda" envelopes, can never be fired, govt scholarships, are entirely wrong?

On 1/13/12 6:19 PM, Boh Heong Yap wrote:
... Just home after mtg. Agree, the measurement is wrong, and measuring the past just to fix some numbers (like rankings or just head count) WITHOUT looking to the future (for ETP); is very short-sighted and typical bureaucratic mindset!

But thats not the point, the entire objective is wrong. The forest is missing, let's plant trees so that in a few years time, we have a healthy forest! How many trees, what trees used to be there is in material, let's plant the trees we need/want!

Don't fix the past, fix the future!

Will add more ideas later tonite...

Also would like to add, we shld address the BCPM as one voice, OSDC, rather then as a bunch of individuals.

Regds. Boh
Sent from my iPhone.

On 13/01/2012, at 5:11 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah <[hidden email]> wrote:

yup, i could certainly use boh's specs 

however the ranking that mosti is using to justify the computing professional bill is not right. that statistics do not even measure stuff like ict companies / ict workers / ict graduates. it does not even consider if ict is part of the curriculum. so, this ranking is not the right measure.



On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 4:43 PM, red1 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Baim, you may have to use Boh's specs as i think this is the trees that we must not see.

What you quoted the govt on is nothing wrong IMHO. You got to measure before you can move. Govt has to measure what it got. And that is what it got.

But the BCPM in question is using the wrong medicine for the right pain. Govt just cannot have the centrist approach anymore. It must open up to more NGOs to decide their ground collectively.

OSDC.my for example are made up of professionals who knows best what it takes. At least trust that we are not part of the statistics who did not made it past SPM.

Relying too much on our dear Madam is also not fair as her hands are tied.


On 1/13/12 4:07 PM, Raja Iskandar Shah wrote:
oh shit !

mosti is not using the most appropriate report for regulating computing professional

the report is essentially an infrastructure report :
http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/publications/idi/2011/index.html

in that report, the index is measured by:
40% ict access
40% ict use
20% ict skill
 

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